ROI business

[jynxy]

I hate to open this can of worms again but every other thread i've read on this seems to descend into arguing.

I basically want to clear up how on earth my adjusted ROI is calculated for the 9man hyper turbos?

For some tourneys i have an net adjusted loss of more than the BI, which i find a bit confusing as i can't lose more than i BI for :s
I understand the calculation is different in HEM but when i imported my tourneys into there there is a 4% difference in ROI (pt4 giving me 5% and HEM 1%).

All of the discussion on statistics and calculations are confusing for me and i just want a nice and simple explanation on why they are so different and why i can have an adjusted loss of more than i bought in for

[WhiteRider]

I assume you're talking about the Net Adjusted results, rather than ROI?

Net Adjusted results are based on ICM calculations for each of your all-in hands. The theoretical monetary gain or loss from each of these hands is summed up for the tournament. If you get all-in when you're behind several times and win the hands then it is possible for you to accumulate a theoretical loss of more than the buy-in - because in theory you *should* have been knocked out several times.

[jynxy]

I assume you're talking about the Net Adjusted results, rather than ROI?

Net Adjusted results are based on ICM calculations for each of your all-in hands. The theoretical monetary gain or loss from each of these hands is summed up for the tournament. If you get all-in when you're behind several times and win the hands then it is possible for you to accumulate a theoretical loss of more than the buy-in - because in theory you *should* have been knocked out several times.

Ah okay that makes sense. How is this applied to Adjusted ROI? I mentioned that there is a huge dfference of 4% between PT4 and HEM (although i think you have 2 different algorithms). The difference is unnerving as for a hyper player that is the difference between winning and losing in the long run

[WhiteRider]

Adjusted ROI is just the ratio of adjusted result to buy-in, in the same way that ROI is the ratio of amount won to buy-in. The same calculation using the adjusted result instead of the real result.

PT4 omits a few all-in situations from the calculations which HM includes - these are multi-way hands where we don't have full information about all of the cards involved in the all-in pot (if someone later folds, for example). These hands will add a bias to the result, so are not included in PT4.

I understand that there is also a difference in the way that we handle some in-the-money eliminations, but since we don't know exactly how HM does these calculations I can't say for sure what the difference is here.

Overall the difference should be fairly small, and we believe that our calculation methods are more accurate.